Comments on: Lying with Data: A lesson in Microsoft spin http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/ What're you buying, stranger? Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:53:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.5 By: chrisj http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502607 Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:53:18 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502607 In reply to Henrik R.

I agree with everything Henrik says.

(I’m also just boggling at the idea that people are so offended by the existence of a sidebar mentioning articles that they *need* to click through and complain about the article being forced down their throat. WTF is wrong with them?)

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By: Henrik R http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502598 Fri, 25 Jul 2014 16:01:56 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502598 A bit late, I know, but I just wanted to pop in and say I really appreciated reading this piece, as I have with your previous “investigative” or opinionated pieces on Savygamer. Surely there’s room for both deals and stuff like this on the same site – and anyway it’s your site to do what you want with, so screw the haters. 🙂

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502536 Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:36:15 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502536 In reply to Iain L.

I suspect the decision was made from more of a marketing perspective than a manufacturing costs one.

It’s also somewhat advantageous to have more than one tier of pricing.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502535 Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:34:35 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502535 In reply to Brad Grenz.

Good points all round, thanks for posting this comment.

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By: Iain L http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502534 Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:26:04 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502534 I don’t know how much Kinect costs them to manufacture, but if it’s not “quite a substantial sum” I’d personally have thought it better to leave it in and make price parity anyway. Normally with these things it’s the R&D costs that really rack up the big bucks, not sticking two webcams and a mic in a plastic case.

There’s an argument that people who just wanted a faster 360 to play Halo with more pixels didn’t want such “casual gamer” stuff near their Manshoot Box. But cutting out the one significant unique feature you have over the PS4 leaves it as a “me too” device that’s still not quite as fast.

Still, once past the opinion on whether it was a good thing to do, it’s hard to escape your argument that the judgement shouldn’t be against May’s artificially low figure if you want a fair comparison. Or that both new consoles are desperately in need of a game as good as Mario Kart 8 if they want to be of interest to the art, rather than the business of games.

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By: Brad Grenz http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502533 Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:52 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502533 We don’t even have to speculate about the figures. Newegg’s editorial site GameCrate inadvertently published the full NPD figures for June so we know that the Xbox One sales had fallen all the way down to 77K in May and were back up to 197K for June. It would have needed to more than triple the May sales to even match the 269K PS4 sold in June.

Jim Sterling’s most recent Jimquisition video on the topic of Microsoft’s dishonesty about the Xbox One (to put it kindly) is timely given your observations. Despite the friendly face they are trying to put on the division now it’s clear they think nothing of manipulating data, misrepresenting their market position and abusing the press for their gain.

You don’t mention this, but releasing the announcement about “sales doubling” the day before NPD figures were to be released gave them basically 24 hours for all the media outlets to report it in a way that implied they carried the month, and denied journalists the immediate opportunity to put the numbers in context. Not that many bothered to use even the publicly available information about how sales had gone in May or, absent that, the logical result of the timing for the price drop’s announcement in early May you lay out.

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By: ron http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502528 Tue, 22 Jul 2014 03:38:39 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502528 In reply to Lewie Procter.

I think this is your site, and your gentle opinions Lewie, when expressed are both worth reading and thoughtful. I don’t think posters like jasonp6 are worth bothering with, and i’m sorry that my earlier supportive response was open to misinterpretation and representation. My thoughts on Microsoft’s behaviour and other major companies have lost me many columns, and consequently I am well aware of the dangers honest opinions even gently expressed today pose. Keep going Lewie…..

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502512 Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:52:30 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502512 In reply to Dan.

Seems to me that there are two distinct groups. Those who want to read my articles, and those who don’t.

Rather than stop doing them in order to placate the second group, I’m going to keep on publishing them, and I’d simply advise anyone who doesn’t want to read my articles to simple opt to not read them. That way everyone wins.

If you don’t want anything but deals, I suggest using this link:
http://savygamer.co.uk/category/deals/

I’m not sure why you think asking for donations is unprofessional. Perhaps you could explain this further?

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By: Dan http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502511 Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:39:03 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502511 I echo the sentiments above – people do not come here for politics or your opinion on these things. It may sound harsh, but that’s the truth.

This, along with asking people for donations when you already earn money from this site, are totally uncalled for, and it’s really setting off an unprofessional vibe.

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By: ron http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502501 Mon, 21 Jul 2014 00:47:03 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502501 In reply to JasonP6.

I was sorry to read your opinionated rubbish relating to the very gentle expression of a different opinion about the changed position of Microsoft on Xbox one. I wouldn’t miss you if you didn’t post comments like this – perhaps you’d like to comment elsewhere on Microsoft’s sacking of Nokia employees as they gut the company?

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502499 Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:27:52 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502499 In reply to JasonP6.

I don’t think that you know what “force-feeding” means.

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By: JasonP6 http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502498 Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:22:36 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502498 I thought I was checking a deals website… Instead I get to read this opinionated, hypocritical rubbish. Please keep articles like this to an appropriate forum rather than force-feeding it down your users throats, or you’re likely to use many, such as this one.

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By: ziggymon http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502496 Sat, 19 Jul 2014 19:34:57 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502496 There was an interesting article on the manipulation of data and statistical spin in politics that Newsnight did a few months back. It’s well worth a check out.

I would also love to see you write some articles about the frontline state of the video game retail industry if possible. I would love to contribute a little as well about some of the shady tactics distribution chains used to do to retailers.

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By: manapause http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502495 Sat, 19 Jul 2014 18:26:36 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502495 In reply to Lewie Procter.

thanks for the articles Lewie, keep it up and ignore the haters!

I love the investigations into the business practices and marketing spin; it makes my brain melt reading eurogamer/polygon etc with the regurgitated press releases with no in-depth analysis or criticism

although i see things like region locking still happens (a pet hate!)

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By: Diziet http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502488 Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:28:02 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502488 It’s a shame none of them really release raw data, as without that even this is guesswork albeit logically argued; and therefore it just becomes one word against another.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502485 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:30:14 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502485 In reply to none.

If you don’t want anything but deals, I suggest using this link:
http://savygamer.co.uk/category/deals/

I have never received any money from Sony.

Update: Also, if I was on the take, do you not think I would plaster this site with adverts? I get enough traffic that I would earn a decent amount from them if I did, but I don’t want to because I don’t like adverts.

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By: none http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502484 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:28:55 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502484 I came here for fuckin’ deals, not to read your spin on spincity while gettin’ a fat paycheck from sony.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502483 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 20:56:12 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502483 In reply to Lewie Procter.

Giant Bomb is probably the only one of the big games sites left that isn’t on my shitlist for one reason or another, but as you say, they don’t do freelance.

Most of the big sites I either wouldn’t really want to work for because I don’t really like how they operate, or I’ve had bad experiences working for/pitching to in the past.

Anywhere else that I’d maybe write for would probably be for very very little pay, and I’d prefer to just have the freedom of publishing myself.

There’s a couple of places that I’d maybe pitch a review to if I had a game that I felt like reviewing and needed the money, but that’s a bit different.

I fully intend to keep it up on SavyGamer, and maybe do a little more, but I guess my main focus is going to be on subjects I feel I’m actually well informed about, and have something worth saying on.

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By: Sean http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502482 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 20:13:02 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502482 In reply to Lewie Procter.

While I’d love to see your articles somewhere a whole lot more people would find them (Giant Bomb comes to mind since they seem to be pretty decent folks but also don’t seem to hire freelancers) I don’t have any problem with them appearing here. In fact I think they really need to become a more regular part of the site.

SavyGamer is already more than a list of deals. It’s not uncommon to see small notes appear in the descriptions of the offers informing us of something you feel we should be aware of (such as Zavvi deals) and being Savy is more than just knowing what’s available, it’s about understanding how to make the right decisions.

I think keeping your audience informed of the sort of practices these companies get up to is all part of the SavyGamer “spirit” and I know it’s why I choose to keep visiting this lovely place rather than the hundreds of price comparison sites out there. I feel respected. And I appreciate that.

Whatever you choose to do Lewie, don’t stop writing this stuff because it’s bloody good.

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By: centaurianmudpig http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502481 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 18:24:47 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502481 Name the companies (that are out for profit) that do not manipulate data in order to make it look like it’s doing better than it is. Manipulation of data is always done, the fact they didn’t release actual figures, means that this double increase means nothing. Selling 1 item of a product, then “more than” doubling that sale in the next month. Wow, that’s amazing, you sold like 2 maybe three items. Break out the champaign! Put that initial number in the thousand units and you get the same forward thinking that gets applied.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502480 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 18:01:41 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502480 In reply to NRool.

I’ve consider this, but the problems are:

1. I’m not quite willing to make the commitment that justifies setting up an entire other site for it. It’s only ever going to be as and when I feel I have something worth writing about.
2. From a purely cynical perspective, there’s a chance that people might discover SavyGamer through reading an article here, which wouldn’t happen in the same way if it was happening on a separate site.

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By: Eduardo http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502479 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:25:42 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502479 In reply to Lewie Procter.

Thanks Lewie, I love reading these articles. If you ever do similar pieces elsewhere, please let the Savygamer community know about it.

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By: NRool http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502478 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 17:25:37 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502478 In reply to Lewie Procter.

Perhaps you could start a dedicated blog for your writings?
I mean, I love have a gander at your titbits on here but it’s not really the ideal place when you think about it, no offense intended of course.

Regardless of what you decide to do, I hope you do continue to add little articles like this from time to time, here or anywhere, they are very interesting to read.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502477 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:51:30 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502477 In reply to Steven.

I broadly agree that ditching Kinect is the correct move, albeit somewhat embarrassing for MS.

But it’s not enough. They need to deliver on compelling games, and they need to be games that I can only play on their platform. 360 was my console of choice last generation, but it was my box for playing multiplatform games. Especially towards the tail end of it’s lifetime, Microsoft pretty much stopped investing in exclusive games that were of any interest to me long ago. They need to give me a reason to think that the Xbox One will be different.

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By: Lewie Procter http://savygamer.co.uk/2014/07/18/lying-with-data-a-lesson-in-microsoft-spin/#comment-502476 Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:46:34 +0000 http://savygamer.co.uk/?p=57917#comment-502476 In reply to Doug.

To be honest the reason I’ve been writing more stuff here is that I’m sick of trying to do freelance games journalism for money. The kind of article I want to write doesn’t really fit in well with most publications, and the terrible pay and low job security isn’t really worth the personal cost to me.

The stuff I like to write most is: Responding to current events in the games industry, analysing business goings on from a consumer advocacy perspective, and calling out bad things when I see them. That doesn’t really suit the structure of most of the places I could pitch something like this to.

I could try and get a regular news gig somewhere, but I’m not all that keen on having to write something even when I don’t have anything worthwhile to write.

I enjoy writing for myself and for my existing audience more than I do trying to mold myself into suiting another publication.

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